On our Sunday evening service our preacher finished off his sermon reading out the latest Lance Lambert “prophecy”. Now I must admit my ignorance, I had never heard of Lance Lambert and when I heard it read out I was left a bit stunned as to what to say (I know, I know very unlike me). So, to buy myself some time I got the musicians to play whilst I thought what I should say. I then got up and said that I thanked the speaker for his sermon but that the final “prophecy” left me uneasy and I am afraid that I disagreed with it and said a couple of reasons why I did.
Now, I am not against prophecy. I am happy to be described as a Happy Clappy or Charismatic and I have seen people really blessed and challenged through good prophecy. But I feel uneasy by prophecies such as this one that claim and easily frighten people but are actually less than accurate on a whole host of levels.
The thing about some prophecies is that they chime with feelings of alienation and exclusion and looking back to a “golden age”. So I thought I should “fisk” the prophecy to say why I felt uneasy about it and why there are problems with it.
So, he starts his prophecy:
Hear the voice of the Lord, O Isles that I have so greatly loved and favoured. I the Lord the Almighty, I took you when you were nothing, clothed with skins and woad, and through My saving power, I made you great.
Firstly, there is a direct claim that this is from God and that therefore it is a claim that all of this is from God. It also shows a rather limited view of history. The skins and woad seems to be a romantic vision of the early tribes that you would find in a ladybird history book. It seems to miss out the Dark ages, the middle ages etc.
When you were nothing, through My Word and your faith in Me, I lifted you and made you Great Britain. Through many awakenings and many revivals, stage by stage, I took you until you became a great power with the greatest Empire in the history of the nations.
Great Britain came about with the Acts of Union of 1707 with the merging of of the English and Scottish parliaments. it means Greater – Greater Britain. Greater meaning not power and glory but larger. In other words its pointing towards a united island.
Of course, greatness can be looked at in different ways. The largest was actually the Mongol Empire in the 13th century. Probably the most important was the Roman Empire which not only has continued to affect the modern world with language and culture but also controlled a high percentage of the world’s population in its time.
From you My Gospel and My Word went throughout the world, and tens of thousands came into an experience of saving faith! That Empire with all its many failings and weaknesses was still one of the most just and righteous Empires of history.
It was great that people went out and shared the Good News of Jesus and I have heard many Africans thanking Britain for that. The second part really needs challenging. How about the millions of slaves traded out of Africa? How about the genocide of some North American tribes? The hunting for sport of Aborigines? The divide and rule policies that led to many dying in places like India? I’m sorry Mr Lambert but your history wouldn’t muster a pass at GCSE let alone God’s divine view. Empires can be used by God (but even then he rails against them).
Those Isles of yours were soaked with the blood of My faithful martyrs and its soil received the burnt ashes of those who would not renounce My Name, My Truth, and My Word. I, the Lord have not forgotten those who gave their all for Me!
I think that he is referring to the martyrs under the reign of Queen Mary (the reference to burnt ashes seems to refer to those burnt and these were the major burnings of Christians in this countries history). We know that there are 284 recorded deaths of people for their faith in that period of time (fewer than those killed in road accidents each year in this country). That is NOT a soaking of these isles. If you look at France you find 1200 protestants killed in one incident in 1562 (at Vassy) or the St Bartholomew’s Day massacre in 1572 when tens of thousands of protestants were killed. France was far more soaked in blood.
But now the whole nation that I created and sustained has turned from Me.
Some 10% of people still go to church and more than that acknowledge the Christian faith in some way. 10% is a huge number. If you look at atheist and humanist societies they have a pitiful number active in them in comparison. The numbers going to church have fallen although that fall has levelled out and in many churches is on the increase again (such as in Springfield Church). So, not all and a good base to work from if we stopped spreading doom and gloom!
They paganise their land, state and institutions; there is no voice heard to warn the nation.
There are plenty of voices that speak up, politicians as well as churches and organisations. The Advertising Standards Authority ruled only this week that Phones4U had caused offence for Christians in their advert on Holy Week this year.
False religion, the work of world rulers of darkness, cover your Isles; A Laodicean church, neither hot nor cold, rumbles on like machinery. It is a church where I am outside of its routine; its organisation and its methodology. It is Christianity without Me: Religion without Me!
It’s always lovely to attack authority and structures but I have spent the past few years working within the Diocese of Southwark structures on Mission and outreach. There has been a real desire to reach out with the love of Jesus to all around us. Churches from all sorts of background are no longer prepared to accept “inevitable” decline. This is just a cheap shot.
My being is seared with pain, for judgement is determined against your land. I can do no other. I will destroy the vestiges of her greatness; I will return her to her first estate. I will wreck her economy, destabilise her in every way. I will change her climate, even her weather. I will prove to her that the way of the transgressor is hard and terrible. I will allow demonic forces held in check erstwhile by My Word and Gospel, and the living faith of so many, to become rampant in her social life, to the destruction of her society.
Of course, this is where we get to the scary bit. The bit that when things go wrong someone will point saying “look, see, he was right”. But lets look at this further. Great Britain has been a declining power for the past 100 years. From before the First World War. By the end of Empire in the ’40s and ’50s and especially after Suez there was a realisation that Great Britain would decline. None of this is new. This has been discussed for decades. But its far greater than that. The US (where 50% go to church) is in a huge economic mess as well. The Western world is seeing the rise of Asia and the BRIC countries. If it was Britain alone then he might be on firmer ground. As for the weather! Give me a break! How many times have we had news articles and newspaper articles about climate change – caused by humanities greed.
The riots of August can easily be seen to play into the “destruction of her society”. But these riots were small beer compared to some past riots of the “golden era” of Britain. How about the Gordon Riots of 1780 when nearly 300 were killed? How about the Peterloo Massacre of 1819 when hundreds were injured?
Social breakdown has always been a threat in this country. In the 18th century nearly one in two children didn’t make it to the age of two. Prostitution and crime was rife in places like London.
We face the breakdown on families and we need to be working to support and help and encourage good relationships and family life but don’t let us read back what we want onto the past.
Will you who know Me and love Me go blind and dumb and deaf into this judgement?
Well after what I have written, I hope not.
It is time for you who love Me, who are faithful to Me, to take action! Stand before Me and plead The Finished Work of My Son. At least cry out to Me, that there will be those who turn from darkness, from sin, and be saved. For whosoever shall call upon My Name in the midst of these judgements, I will save!
The call of the Church is the same as it has ever been. The Church was called into being for the sake of the world. To share the love of Jesus with all.
It will cost you everything to stand in the gap, but you will enter into My heart, and know deep fellowship with Me. Such travail conceived in your heart by My Spirit will cost your deeply, but it will end in My Throne and Glory.
What is fascinating is that the reading for this morning was from Mark 6 where Jesus returns to Nazareth and they reject him and he can do “no deed of power” there because of their unbelief. But he doesn’t rant at them or proclaim death and destruction to them or call down fire from heaven. It says that
And he was amazed at their unbelief.
Will Cookson's Blog 
Totally agree with you Will. I’m afraid the words ‘nutbag fundamentalist’ spring to mind the moment I see anything like this… I’m not sure which is worse, his theology or his history!
Both are pretty ropey. But many buy into this which is where I worry.
Dear “Evangelical” Liberal,
Belatedly perhaps I’ve discovered your critique of Lance Lambert’s prophesy. Put bluntly: read your Bible,
For all its shortcomings, Britain has been a force for good, particularly for the last few centuries. But that ‘goodness’ was not inate. That righteous spirit, and basic national decency,that promoted a soggy little island in the North Sea to become “Great” came through the deep, passionate and inspirational faith of Wesley, Wilberforce and Shaftsbury and Livingstone ….to name but a few. Men, and women, of God. Or, at the very least, people enthused and enlightened with an essentially Christian morality.
Empires come and go. Even Israel, the “Apple of God’s Eye”, was wiped off the map for millenia….for disobedience. Britain, Greece, Russia, Rome, the Mongols, the US….Some were raised as a force for good, others only to inflict punishment on the enemies of God.
Britain is dissolving before your very eyes. Both the nation and, tragically, the Church of England, have become pathetic burlesques of themselves. Spiritual powerlessness and ever- increasing social irrelevance bear witness to that organisation’s abandonment of the Word, and Fear of God.
God will not be mocked. Jesus said to the people of Capernaum,
…”If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, IT WOULD HAVE REMAINED TO THIS DAY”. (Matt.11:23)
” ‘Not by might, nor by power but by my Spirit” says the Lord Almighty.( Zech. 4:6)
A concluding thought: God is passionately ‘evangelical’, but not in the least ‘liberal’. There is nothing remotely liberal about sending your Son to die in order to win eternal salvation for people who don’t deserve it.
Dear Andrew,
Thanks for your comment – I didn’t write the original post, but yes I do broadly agree with it. (On reflection, the wording of my original comment was unguarded and unhelpful, though I stand by the substance.)
I do indeed read my Bible – I just read it rather differently to how you read yours. I’d tentatively submit that your reading of the Bible, view of the atonement, understanding of British history and view of the current Church of England all seem to be characterised by a slight one-sidedness and lack of nuance. That’s not to say that you’re wrong; just that these are more complex matters than you seem to allow, and there are important aspects that you appear to overlook.
Great Britain is neither merely a soggy island nor a special country that has until recently blessed the world. It is a mixed land with a mixed people and a mixed history, a history in which God has always been involved but in which his will has (of course) only ever partially been done. The same remains true now; there are many good and Christ-filled elements of the country and the church, and renewal continues to happen both at grassroots and leadership level.
I’m neither ‘liberal’ nor ‘evangelical’; my blog/screen name is deliberately playful. Of course God’s sending of his son was evangelical in the true sense of good-news-bringing. It was also liberal, in the sense of prodigally generous (a ‘liberal’ gift), and freedom-bringing (‘liber’ = freedom).
Bless you,
Harvey (‘The Evangelical Liberal’)
How good to find someone who reads their scriptures .
If you have the Spirit you hear the Spirit. Time will tell, but then it will be too late.
“And He was amazed at their unbelief”
will you quoted the from the Bible and then attributed to Lance, who cheesy can u get? He started with a prayer from the Bible and did not claim he heard it from God. Larn to read text before you attack people. Dangerous? How? You didn’t explain that. You are the dangerous one.
Will,
I’m so glad you challenged this prophecy on Sunday, and here. The prophecy had left me feeling very uncomfortable when I heard it, & your challenge meant that we questioned it, rather than going away feeling condemned. You also showed respect for our speaker.
I spoke to a couple of pals after the service, about it, & both agreed with me that you handled it perfectly. Well done.
I think today’s blog is very informative too. I must admit I didn’t know all the historical background. I suggest Lance himself should read it, & follow it up with some research of his own.
God bless,
Angela
Sounds like you are on the ball as ever Will
All prophesy should be checked/tested.
My experience has been that many well meaning people have become carried away and their knowledge, subconcious or other – along with emotional feeling and a sprinkle of intention can produce a stunning sounding prophesy that is geared for
a specific effect.
In short I have found many prophesies to be almost dangerous and in need of being carefully checked and judged
I am so pleased to hear that you stepped in in this instance.
I agree Geoff, we do need to test these things. Angie and I have been really helped and encouraged by some prophecies and pictures in the past that have been spot on but we do need to check them and look at what is being said.
Well done Will. I’d like to think you borrowed the ‘Ladybird Book’ idea from me &;0)
In all seriousness, I agree with all you say and I appreciate that you have taken the time and trouble to address the ‘prophecy’ bit by bit. I have never heard of this Lance bloke either and I am concerned that a) the speaker implied it had been given to him directly by Lance Lambert and b) that the speaker did not have the courtesy to seek permission from you before declaring it. Most unbiblical.
The language is quite emotive and on the surface, without the benefit of your sound analysis, seemed plausible to me. Then I remembered that the speaker wasn’t quite sure when the ‘prophesy’ had been made – before or after the riots, he didn’t seem to know. I mentally put it on the ‘dodgy pile’. Dangerous stuff and given thoughtlessly.
Thanks again for giving us the opportunity to revisit this and mull it over.
Ar the other end of the spectrum what concerns me as much are the seemingly bland (although undeniably well meant) generalizations that purport to be words/pictures??? of knowledge or insight that we hear from time to time in our Church.
Surely, a genuine word from the Lord, in whatever form, should be characterized by a certain incisiveness and power.
Could you not do some workshops or teaching on prophecy and discernment? It might prove really beneficial.
db that’s a good point. We have had many, (in my time), workshops on prophesy in all its forms, but I understood that discernment is more a gift than something you can learn. Either way, if some members of the church think training is needed – then of course we should provide it.
db,
I get the impression that you may be the great bearded one David (well in fact I know you are as its your email address!!).
I would be very happy to run a workshop on prophecy. Sometimes words and pictures can be quite subtle and gentle. It is all too easy to have as our example Old Testament prophecies with their flowing beards and blazing eyes. But there are many others that are far more gentle and less aggressive.
I just think that if you have someone who is saying something controversial that it needs testing. Lance Lambert’s, I don’t think, cut the mustard.
Fair enough about there being gentle prophecies – in the context of unimaginable national suffering: “Comfort ye my people.” etc.
Lance Lambert’s utterance reminded me very much of the sort of things that were being said from the Christian right-wing in the 1980s: “Mrs Thatcher being a precious flower in the Garden of the Lord” etc. etc.
What comes over as unusual is the notion of a bunch of Anglicans combining so vehemently to condemn what appears be false teaching. I wonder whether the person who brought this to the church, on reading this correspondence, would feel personally rejected.
I wouldn’t dispute that the history was dodgy, the tone bombastic and that many have reservations about Mr Lambert’s doctrinal orthodoxy. A bit misguided probably,
but isn’t ‘dangerous’ being a bit melodramatic? Who’s been dangerously affected by it? Surely, in being off-target it just whizzed off into the ether like an untied balloon.
If there was anything worthwhile, wasn’t it the implication that what we do with our lives is more desperately important than is perhaps comfortable for us to consider?
With snowy beard waving in the wind and eyes twinkling merrily …
db
David,
I love your penultimate paragraph and I couldn’t agree more that “that we do with our lives is more desperately important than is perhaps comfortable for us to consider”. It’s also why we are spending a series this autumn looking at the spiritual disciplines that help us follow Jesus more closely.
For me the danger in his prophecy is the way that we can all too easily end up becoming a besieged group that ends up with a form of dualism and ends up with us moving towards away from real engagement with real people and the issues that they face and end up looking back to some golden aged fantasy that never existed!
I love your final line – must remember it for the AGM and the Year in the Life slideshow – I’m sure that I can find a suitable picture of you!!
Dear Will,
Having spent many years with the Non-Conformists and, you will not be surprised to hear, not conforming, I have encountered ‘remnant-ism’ in a fairly undiluted form ie “There is no such thing as a Christian Student (c.1970s)”,”Out in the World they don’t know how to love. Only we know”. “All that matters is saving Souls and getting them into the Church. It doesn’t matter what happens to them after that”. The curtain halfway down the church to block out the sight of The Lord’s Supper for the unbaptized (by full immersion only) was only a memory amongst the older folk in my time.
Just a thought on your reply came to mind as I was thinking about it. Was it not dear old Screwtape who got people focussing on the danger of the errors that they were least likely to fall into?
Surely, our church is not within a million light years of a siege mentality … unless I’m completely mistaken. Isn’t the danger more that it could be interpreted by visitors as a sort of a social club? (I might well have overstated that just a little …)
May I respectfully encourage you to give your series on spiritual disciplines this Autumn more ‘Welly” than perhaps you’d previously contemplated.
It is my observation from the position I’m in that, even Bible knowledge amongst regular members is not all that it might be. I was personally persuaded of this a couple of years ago by the testimony of a Messianic Jew on Youtube, of all places. I was happy to study details of congenial books. Now I will look at any area of Scripture both in detail and in a broader context with equal anticipation.
The end,
db
David,
Thanks for the observations. I do agree that we need more of the bible and more of the context and more really of everything!
Must admit it can be difficult getting the balance right on this. We did the Walk through the Bible seminars and we also actively encourage people to actually read their bibles but I do agree with you we need more!
In terms of where we are as a church there is some truth in what you say. We have spent years as a church becoming an outward looking one. The danger, especially as we have grown, is to become a social club and to relax our outward focus. Your wife plays a marvellous role in welcoming people but all of us need to play our part as well!
I agree!
I, personally, have been greatly encouraged by some of the pictures we’ve had in church over the years. To some people’s ears, ‘I love you’, ‘I want to pour out blessing’ & similar might have seemed very banal to some, but might speak really clearly into someone’s life at a specific point in time. There have been times when I’ve needed to hear that God loves me, He accepts me, I’m His beloved daughter etc, so we shouldn’t discount a word/picture just because it’s ‘nice’.
There are also times when we need to be challenged, but I think those are the prophecies which require the most careful handling, because they can sound condemning. L.L.’s being a case in point.
I’m all for hearing some more teaching on prophecy, & perhaps on the ‘testing’ of prophecy.
It is a brave man or woman who dares to speak in the first person of the Lord! It does seem a bit contrived to say ‘Isles’ as if to make it more biblical sounding. I do think that our nation is guilty of shedding the innocent blood of millions of children in abortions but this is not mentioned in the prophecy – and it is something I believe is very near to the Lord’s heart. I also think that the churches in our country need a wake up call and that we as a nation are due for the judgement of God to fall. The Bible tells us to test everything. If Lance Lambert is not right then I would not like to be in his shoes on judgement day!
Treena,
Thank you for your comments and welcome to the blog. Now that the dust has died down on the abortion debate last week I was planning on writing an article in the next day or two. I think that it can be very difficult whilst the atmosphere is so emotionally charged to look at it well. There were some great articles flying about from very unexpected sources and i woudl like to pull a few of them together.
The whole area of prophecy is a difficult one – often in the past they have been challenging, causing folks to feel uncomfortable, rarely with folks having a nice gooey feeling.
Those claiming to have a prophecy – and starting off with “Thus says the Lord …” need to be beware and test it themselves prayerfully before delivering it anywhere. However it is equally challenging for those who hear such “prophecies” and are as dismissive as some of the comments above. God sets Himself against the proud, but “will bless those who have humble hearts”.
The 2nd hand version for Springfield was given in the context of an in-house church service – and hence subsequent challenge and discussion should have been in a similar forum. Not on a “public” blog, which can provide a public put down of others who may be well meaning even if they are considered misguided, It is hardly edifying for the church – in its wider sense – to be seen by others to be so critical of its fellow members.
Tim,
Thank you for your comments.If I could just comment on the last paragraph I would like to say that I did indeed address it in the church service both publicly in general terms and also talk to the personally to the individual who shared it. I am not in anyway putting the person down in terms of them or their ministry. I support the person and they know that full well.
In terms of Lance Lambert’s prophecy he has made it widely available and public to people. It is surely then the role of the wider church to test it. You need to also remember that the “prophecy” launches a harsh attack on the church in this country. He describes it as ” A Laodicean church, neither hot nor cold, rumbles on like machinery. It is a church where I am outside of its routine; its organisation and its methodology. It is Christianity without Me: Religion without Me!” I don’t think that you can get much more critical than that!
I don’t attack him personally (I don’t know him and he may well be a wonderful man) but I am critical of the ideas and the views that he is enunciating. I do think that they can do harm to Christians and Christianity in this country and can lead to a besieged atmosphere and view of the world.
I have just become aware of the Lance Lambert prophecy and I have to say it strikes me as a sincere word from Christ.
i am over in the States and I am really appalled by the apostasy and sin in the churches here.
If you really think the prophecy is off – please show since the first century church when there has been more false doctrine (unconditional love, grace, rapture, heaven) with TV evangelist begging for money and a corrupt society because the light of morality is no longer seen in the Christian churches.
In addition, search the old testament prophets as well as Rev 2&3 about Gods word to Israel and the Church isn’t that encouraging and in fact much much more severe…..
Shalom,
Mike Singer
Finally, the Word of the Lord is already published in the HOLY BIBLE. Thank you, Mr.Singer. God’s truth will be the final testimony. Carnal Christianity will not
‘cut it’ with the Lord. He, not the church, is prei
minent.
I think there has been too much papering over the cracks and pushing things under the carpet in the church – the prophecy was a public one originally and made public so it is legitimate for anyone to respond. Well meaning Lance Lambert may be – but is he right – that is the big question? It is more edifying for the church to hear the pros and cons of such a prophecy rather than just meekly accepting everything without question. The Bereans were complimented by Paul for their questioning. Sorry Tim I don’t agree.
I agree with Will about danger. In any given church service, there will be a cross section of society. (I’m not claiming an exact ratio of society at large – let’s not go there) but there will be vulnerable and/or impressionable people who may well be distressed by hearing that demons will be allowed free reign and society will crumble.
Lambert has a right to publicise his prophesy, but I strongly defend the right of Will as my
Minister to open it up for public debate and to allow time and space to his congregation to think
it through at the time of hearing.
The speaker has lived for some years in a different culture and could in fact should be forgiven for repeating this prophesy without reference to the Minister. Or maybe we should thank him for sparking such a lively debate?
It is very interesting to see what Jacob Prasch says about Lance Lambert – see Moriel Ministries website – to quote:
A major Christian magazine, itself known for its endorsement of hyper charismatic extremism, exposed Ruth Hefflin’s group on the Mount of Olives who displayed footage of women with “miraculous gold dust in their hair”. A metallurgical analysis however revealed it was plastic based stationery glitter. Hefflin’s miracle gold was exposed as bogus. Yet her followers seem to claim a prophetic calling in Jerusalem! Perhaps the saddest excuse for a watchman in Jerusalem has become Lance Lambert who teamed up with the most extreme example of Toronto style ‘charismania’ ever captured on video in the person of Mahesh Chavada. The antics of shirtless people yodelling and swinging swords in church yelling ‘Prepare For War’ in a manifest sons style ritual was the most bizarre demonstration of charismatic chaos imaginable. Chavada has in the past been associated with the Christian Embassy ( who have imported a variety of heretics into Israel including Morris Cerullo), but despite the protestations of many of his friends, Mr. Lambert joined his colleague Chavada in the Cranbourne fiasco. Biblical watchmen in Jerusalem, as assayers of the people, tried to protect God’s people from lunacy and deception. While Mr. Lambert is misrepresented as a watchman in Jerusalem, far from protecting God’s people from deception and lunacy he in fact joins forces with it. Whatever Lance Lambert may be, he is certainly no watchman.
William Holman Hunt, 1851 Light of the World
John Everett Millais, 1852 AHuguenot on St Bartholomew’s Day
Voila, absolutement !
With a anti-christ goverment, a druid heading up the so called national church! Maybe Mr Lambert’s prophecy is slightly over the top? but the nation needs a mighty wake up call. Remember judgement first comes to the house of the lord so better to be over the top than end up wrapped in apathey and complacency wheen the judgement does come, as it is!!!
I’m not a huge fan of the current government (or indeed the previous one), but ‘anti-christ’ seems a little harsh! 😉
Rowan Williams isn’t a druid – at least not in the sense you’re thinking. He’s just a member of the Welsh Gorsedd of bards, which is primarily a poetry organisation! The title ‘druid’ here is just an honorary/ceremonial one and has nothing to do with religious beliefs or rituals.
I’m not sure either apathy or misplaced zeal have much to recommend them…
rowan wiliams is practising his free masonary and wants all religiongs to come together for world peace and to save the planet , remember scripture judgement came to israel then they repented and turned back to the LORD , mr lance lambert gave us a word from GOD he is not very popular , but nothing has changed the prophets were never very popular with the word that GOD gave them to the people mr lance lambert is to be listened to and turn to the LORD and swallow your pride
full gospel fred,
Having just heard of Rowan’s denunciation of Mugabe’s regime in Zimbabwe I have to say that I couldn’t disagree more. Rowan’s action takes real courage and heroism. He is not and has never been pro-freemasonry.
But that is the problem with your response, it doesn’t depend on facts it depends on slander and hearsay and gossip. Show me where I was factually wrong about Mr Lambert’s prophecy and I’ll happily change my tune.
Resgobesgert,
Over the top is when you exaggerate – for example if he had said thousands had died for their faith in Queen Mary’s time and not the hundreds it really was. Lance Lambert’s “prophecy” was wrong. It was factually incorrect in virtually every particular and he based the judgement on those false facts. Therefore, you can’t rely on the resultant prophecy.
The thing is that lots of Christians seem to love the judgement and don’t care how it was arrived at.
The bible says we must test the prophecies. I did. If you disagree, which is your right to, then tell me where I was wrong.
You may know I don’t do blogging etc, but my attention was drawn to this by someone else.
Firstly, I think it is wrong to put this on the blog in the first place. The dust should have settled before we even attempt to discuss the matter in a very different context.
Secondly, emotions are too raw (from the bits I have read) to allow objective analysis and debate.
Thirdly, regardless of what has been said, the person who delivered this is subtly being attacked. It is not easy to separate the messenger from the message, even though the original prophecy originates from somewhere else.
I am somewhat disappointed but not surprised.
I will not even comment on the prophecy itself, I don’t need to. What I am concern about is the emotions that this seemed to have raised.
One would expect mature Christians and those who have been in church for many years to know what to do with prophecy?
For those immature/ young Christians who were there when the prophecy was read, the response from Will should be enough to provide whatever assurance they needed- end of the matter!
Forgetting what Will has written, the question therefore is:
1. Why did people feel they way they felt? Was it because the Holy Spirit witnessed into their spirit?
2. What is God actually saying to individuals about this, rather than jumping behind what others have said or written?
3. To have a forum to express oneself is one thing, to deal with what is bubbling underneath.
4. Where is Grace, Understanding and Wisdom?
5. Would it not be better to ponder over the 10% that could be true rather dismiss a message because you feel they are misguided?
Bless you Ben. I understand your concerns and thank you for sharing them, though I don’t agree with them. I agree that it’s risky to put something like this in a public forum and can seem undermining to the speaker who originally shared the prophecy, though I think Will’s made it clear that he was supportive of the speaker himself and was only questioning the prophecy, which wasn’t his.
It might be no bad thing to ponder over the 10% that could be true, but if it’s really such a small proportion of truth and even then only ‘could’ be true, I’m not sure it’s worth giving it that much attention. The whole context and tone of the ‘prophecy’ – let alone its content – seem to me to give us very reasonable cause to doubt its accuracy, though I’m not saying we can be complacent.
Speaking out often results in negative responses Will, but I think you have done the right thing here.
The Prophecy seems laced with British Israelism almost!
“..laced with British Israelism..” Presumably you’re anti-semitic then Edward?
Kay,
Doubt very much that Edward is anti-semitic. British Israelism is the idea that Brits are descended from the 10 Lost Tribes of Israel.
And what is wrong with that idea? Much of Europe is descend from Israel. Genetic survey’s show that but so does historical accounts. If you read Beowolf they meticulously thrace the lineage of their kings back to Jafet, son of Noeh (Beowolf was written 500 years before Christianity was known in the North). If you look at Denmark there are strong indications that they are descendants of the tribe of Dan. There are also strong indication that much of Greece are descendants of Jews that fled slavery in Egypt. In any case God promised Abraham he would be father of many nations (Genesis 17:5) and Joseph’s son Eprahim was to become a “league of nations.” (Genesis 48:15-20. You are very narrow minded when you so easily dismiss this idea.
Reading your comments Will, a problem you have is that you seem to think you know everything.
Hey guys, just some thoughts on the prophecy. I was working for Lance at the time he had this prophecy. It was not something that happened during a meeting, but was sitting at his home.
The reason for Judgement is to bring about repentance and to wake people up. The Lord fortified this nation and used it mightily to fulfil his will and spread the Gospel, and as a moral power in the world, but since ww2, the country has turned its back on the Lord and the foundations which made it what it was. It is the leaders that represent a country, and our leaders have no time or thought for God. In general the church is full of methodology and self-sufficiency, where it appears God is not needed. There are church’s that truly seek the Lord and are alive, and it is those church’s that God is calling on to stand in the gap, to intercede and pray for the country. I personally have no doubt that there will yet be another great awakening in Britian, where there will be a great harvest, but i feel that the country will go though much hardship and its way of life will suffer, and the days of Britain being a moral political power are well and truly over.
It was interesting that it was given just before all the rioting kicked off ” I will allow demonic forces held in check erstwhile by My Word and Gospel, and the living faith of so many, to become rampant in her social life, to the destruction of her society”
Obviously you need to test a prophecy, and many men of God have bourne witness to it, and i personally bear witness to at the very least aspects of it. In my opinion, and many others, Lance truely is a man of God, and his life and ministry bares witness to that.
why are these prophets like overweight pigs – get the sin of glutton out and then we might listen…….
Treena, Jacob Prasch hasn’t got a good word to say about anyone. You can find quotes on him slandering any given person.
Chris,
Welcome to the blog and thanks for your comments.
As I said earlier he may well be a wonderful man. The thing is that I think that this the “golden age” view of history is plain wrong. So, when you strip those away I’m not sure that there is much left of his prophecy as he bases it all on this golden age idea.
For the nations sake I hope these opinions are right though they sound slightly arrogant. When all is said and done, ‘only time will tell’ if this word was from God.
Actually Jacob Prasch does like some people – though not a lot! Probably because most are in the apostate church – his teaching is excellent and he doesn’t prophecy in the same manner as a lot of these so called prophets. His teaching is the very best that I have heard
Think what you like about the prophecy but I happen to know Lance Lambert personally. Like the rest of us he is human, and therefore fallible, and his words should be tested as should all words and prophecies but it does not help to rail against him and call him a ” “fundamentalist nutbag” as one of the people who responded did. I have many many problems with the NAR movement and the Elijah List but I refuse to attack them personally. Whether you like it or not you will be spending eternity with the likes of Lance Lambert…he might even live next door to you 🙂
Hi Nigel,
You’re right of course – it was unkind, unwise and ill-considered to bandy the label ‘nutbag fundamentalist’ around, and I apologise for that.
To qualify slightly (or to split hairs), I didn’t go quite so far as to directly call Lance Lambert a nutbag; it’s more that my gut response to hearing this kind of alleged/claimed prophecy is generally along the lines of ‘oh no, this must come from another loony fundy’. Whether or not this is in fact the case for Mr Lambert I admit I have no way of knowing.
However, the more I’ve looked at Lance Lambert’s ministry and other prophecies the more inclined I am to the view that his theology is extreme and misguided (which is probably just a more polite way of saying ‘nutbag fundy’). I’m also highly suspicious of anyone who claims to have this level of direct communication with God on such contentious subjects, though that’s not to say it’s impossible.
Of course, I may well be wrong. And either way, I can well believe that Lance is a lovely person and a fine Christian who I’ll be glad to spend eternity with.
All the best,
Harvey
If Lance Lambert is a false prophet we will not be sharing eternity with him. These days people do not have the prophetic ministry in the same way as the Old Testament prophets like Daniel, Jeremiah etc. Biblically we should share what we believe the Lord has shown us and allow it to be tested, but it is foolish and arrogant to say things in the first person of the Lord. It puts people like Lance Lambert in a class of their own, as if they can hear from the Lord in a way that we lesser mortals cannot. I don’t think this is right at all. I believe that I have heard things from the Lord in a very definite way but I would not dare to use this sort of language – ‘the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom’.
The discomfort you felt was most probably the Holy Spirit quickening the message in you, calling you to repent, draw closer to Him and pray for your nation as this message is essentially about.
Now you have turned a number of people away from this call to draw closer to Him, of the warning that it will be at great cost, of repentance and prayer for Great Britain.
Your reaction is exactly how the people of old reacted to the Prophets of God thousands of years ago.
Their messages often left the people feeling afraid because God, in his mercy, was wanting them to heed His call and repent so they would not face judgment.
Rather than heed the message on bended knee and heart before God who sent the message and messenger, they often killed the messenger (Prophet) simply because the words made them feel afraid or uncomfortable.
The way you have dissected this message and attempted to denounce it, you are obviously happy with the spiritual condition of Great Britain.
There is therefore no need for you to heed this call to draw closer to the Lord, of repentance, and to stand in the gap for the nation and your people.
Gary,
Welcome.
Now Gary if the message had been repent, draw close to Him and pray for your nation that would have been fine. Indeed awesome. But it wasn’t. It was a whole load of rubbish history, looking back to some “golden age” and from that building up a message.
No it isn’t how prophets of old were treated. They pointed out the societal injustices and didn’t call empire great. I’m not killing Lance; as I have said earlier he may well be a great guy. But if you know him tell him to get at least his history right! When there are so many basic errors in his prophecy it doesn’t make it right and I question it. We are told to test prophecy. The God I follow “rejoices with the truth” (1 Cor 13).
If I am wrong show me where I was wrong. I’m happy to be corrected. But most of the comments are defending the indefensible. Surely Prophecy needs a certain level of accuracy?
the problem is that we are warned that the end times will bring many false prophets. It is absolutely right to test prophecy – the prophet should be accurate in every respect if they are truly from God – I agree with you Will. God grant us the gift of discernment of spirits in these last days.
Amen.
My (Joe Idziak’s) amen was to Gary’s defense of the prophecy. The placement (after treena’s) is wrong.
Well said Gary, I can now clearly see the context in which Jeremiah the prophet operated.
Dear Ladies and Gentleman, a small focus on Kingdom Principles!
Romans 12:3-8 Gifts of the Father(Basic Life Purpose and Motivation)
Prophecy
a.to speak with forthrightness and insight, especially when enabled by the Spirit of God (Joel2,28)
b. to demonstrate moral boldness and uncompromising commitment to worthy values.
c. to influence others in one´s arena of influence with a positive spirit of social and spiritual righteousness.
Note Because all three categories of gifts-the Father´s , the Holy Spirit´s involve some expression of “prophecy”, it is helpful to differentiate. In this category (Romans 12) the focus is general, characterized by that level of the prophetic gift which would belong to every believer – “all flesh” The Holy Spirit
For YHWH’s sake can’t you recognise a true prophetic ministry when you hear one!! BE WARNED. Surely it is obvious that Churchianity has deviated grossly from Luther, Wesley,
Bishop Ryle, Moody and Spurgeon.Measure what you are saying against your own foundations. Lance Lambert is a moderate well balancedman not an extremist. As for Jacob Prasch how dare he insult Lance “calling him the product of assimilation”. I am a Messianic Jew but this is nonsense.
We don’t need to get personal about it – there are clear rules for testing prophecy in the Bible and if a prophecy does not meet the criteria then it is false – end of. Jacob Prasch is a fine teacher – one of the only people I actually trust — albeit I check everything he says in the Bible if unsure.
I would like to say br other that you definately have this wonderful Godly man all wrong. Lance Lambert is a “gentleman ” in every aspect. I first heard him speaking at the Feast of Tabernacles in Jerusalem and God’s word just comes alive listening to him talk. He is very gracious and non critical and just says it according to God’ word.I feel that he certainly is a Prophet of God. Blessings Ann
I have just stumbled on this blog and surprised at what I read. I have known Lance for over 30 years and been involved in the work of The Lord the same amount of time. Over those years I have seen what he has spoken been tested and proven true.
What is in our hearts and minds will one day be revealed when we all stand before Him and give an account
From the Old Testament the Prophets who gave hard and uncomfortable words were rejected by most hearers.The Lord constantly warned not to listen to the Prophets who said everything was going to be OK.
As this Prophesy is certainly hard and uncomfortable, perhaps this is the one we should be listening to.
Lance Lambert has been a Gifted servant to the Kingdom for 30+ years,his prophecy requires no discernment as its truth is clear to all but those who are the cause of G.d’s impending Judgement. So babble on in Babylon ,make the most of your opinions , fortunately there is only One opinion that matters, the One Lance Lambert so clearly expressed..
I agree, have been following him for 20 years.He is right.
also, GB was a massive empire and as far as slavery is concerned as it was mentioned, it was the British through Wilberforce and friends who first banned it.
It was the Arabs who started slavery and still deal in slaves ( i.e.Sudan)
Dear Rob & SSmith,
The problem that you are posing for yourself is that you are setting up teachers who automatically are right – whatever the evidence. I was merely pointing out that Lance (however nice he is) was demonstrably wrong and not a single contributor has put forward a single convincing reason that he was factually correct in his prophecy. Most is bluster along the lines of Rob or just factually incorrect like SSmith.
SSmith, he didn’t say “massive”, he said “the greatest”. I am currently in Istanbul where the Roman Empire finally died in 1453 after nearly 2,000 years during which it had more influence on the world than the British Empire. Yes, there were some great people like Wilberforce but they were great because they could make a coherent argument and convinced the population (though Britain wasn’t the first to abolish slavery. Other countries beat us to it)
The Arabs didn’t start slavery and it has been know to occur since ancient times (try remembering Joseph etc). To blame the Arabs when you may well be wearing clothes made by bonded labourers or forced labour or child labour is ridiculous.
Mr Cooksen, You are a Liberal.You believe Our Lord was a social do gooder,Not G.d,.The Virgin Birth,the Incarnation, the Resurrection are all things that must be understood allegorically!. You need to be Born Again from above, a Miracle instigated by G.d Himself, in order to discern Spiritual Giftings as this Prophecy.By the way cheeping is what birds do ,I would be fearfull of referring to the Messages of our Lord’s Servants as cheap.
Thanks for the spelling correction – now sorted. For the rest see my responses above or come up with a reasoned argument.
Dear all,
I have held off from responding for a while, in what is turning into a long-running debate, but I felt that some recent comments have been utterly out of order. Particularly those which, (if I’m reading them correctly), cast aspersions on Will, & on his right to disagree with what Lance Lambert says.
May I respectfully remind readers that Will is an experienced ordained minister who has gone through years of theological training? What right have any of us to cast doubt on anyone’s salvation, let alone that of a clergyman?! I was horrified.
Please could we calmly agree to respect each other’s differences, & draw a line under this debate, as it’s getting a bit tiresome.
Thanks,
Angela xx
Only Paul had any degree of theological training and he only came to a knowledge of Jesus by direct revelation not by his education or intellect. In fact his intellect blinded him to the point where he was foremost in persecuting the believers. He was a product of that days bible college. The apostles on the other hand amazed their hearers by their wisdom and understanding of scripture. Amazed them because the Jews knew them to be unlearned ordinary men with no formal training. All they had was scripture and the Holy Spirit and they changed the face of the world.
Theological training has nothing to do with whether you hear from God or not. Will can of course disagree with Lance but he has to bear the consequence of leading others to ignore the warning. If Lance’s prophecy is from God, and I believe it is, then he is effectively saying “don’t listen to God”. If it isn’t then the prophecy will not come true and you can ignore anything Lance says in future as he will be a false prophet. However I can only see it being true at the moment. If you really want to know then humble yourself before God with prayer and fasting and you’ll know if you have the Holy Spirit.
Whoooo boy!
I came here (this blog) looking for some stability, enlightened comment, and sense of direction over the Lance Lambert ‘prophecy’ stuff: I find it degenerating into a slanging match between Christians? Shame on you! If Lambert is some nut job then, yeh, fine: we all giggle a the silly man for a minute or two then, re3alising our sin and shame REPENT (That’s ‘change you mind’ to you who don’t do the Greek), and PRAY for him. If he is a spot-on prophet of God (I’ve no qualms about using one of My Dad’s Titles) then REPENT and PRAY for him!!!
What is your problem?
The press, and many would have us believe that Grand or Greater Britain is going to hell in a hand bag; new flash: there is actually some truth in that, but only some. Wage disparity between the uber‑rich and working poor with out taking into account the disenfranchised (un‑waged) of our society is one. Hardly glorifying is the abortion rate in our land (ok Ladies, you do have the right to chose what goes on in your own bodies and yes, as some ones literal bastard (the outcome of illicit intercourse – that’s me!) I DO know the pain it causes!) and then when we look to our justice (or just why, oh church, are there so MANY people crying out in protest at YOU!?!), our treatment of minorities (that includes Christians, oddly enough) and the deformed and disabled; not to mention THE WORKERS!…….! (socialist rant over). I could throw in here, the “indiscretions” of clergy, evangelists, “prophets of God” and the like but the abused (those who have suffered the ‘hands’ of these would get upset; yes, I am genuinely ashamed and sorry it happened on ‘my’ watch; I apologise to you all) BUT the news is not all bad!
There are GOOD THINGS happening in the Kingdom of God: HTB in London, RCC Solihull, Wolverhampton and many many other.
So what’s the problem?
1) GET OVER YOUR PRIDE! GET OVER YOURSELVES! I’ve been a christian of the born‑again‑spirit‑filled variety for over 40 years, so have seen a bit of the stuff. I’ve done the conferences had, and still have a few of the ‘big names’ as acquaintances and yes, friends. I’ll cut to the chase because I don’t want to waffle on about who I know and just how great they are and stuff. You don’t need it! The BIG problem is the raging EGOs’ of these (mainly men) in leadership, who are INSISTING on “My way or bust!”. When the disciples pointed out to Jesus that there was some one preaching kingdom and doing signs and wonders who was not part of their group, Jesus told them “leave him alone!”. Let’s understand that there’s a lot going on and if we could just realise that it is JESUS’ Kingdom and Church and we can all work, pray and seek to do HIS will and stop biting each others backs…..!
2) LOVE ONE ANOTHER! Folks, It surprises me that the ONLY command Jesus EVER gave in HIS NAME (Check John 15 please before going off on one) [and He gave it TWICE!] is totally ignored by the church! I was once asked by a leading clergyman of my parish “what should he do if he wanted revival in his church”. I said I’d go away, pray, and in seven days I would bring him his answer. This I did. Here’s the answer:
“Preach the Word of God as the Word of God, not your “I Thinks’” or your politics. Preach Jesus and Him Crucified; preach the Grace of God. Lay hands on the sick, anointing for healing and pray that they are healed; they shall recover. Tell your congregation to take care of one another, not living in each others back pockets but sharing the burdens of life (Acts 2 through 4 is a good example of this…..!) If some one has a lawn mower or flat iron and one has not, then loan him or her the mower or flat iron, better still go mow their lawn or do their ironing! If some one is lonely, go visit, better still, take them on holiday with you; share your resources with your needy fellows; bear one another’s burdens and so fulfil the law of Christ ….(oops! Giving the game away here!). Allow the Holy Spirit free reign. Let all minister as God enables but in due order and with dignity. Yes, test the spirits and be not deceived, for Christ’s Holy Spirit will Speak of The Christ and His Saving Grace. Let Jesus be Who He Is: LORD of His Church.”.
Needles to say this went down like a lead balloon. That church is still where it always was,middle of the road; stuck in the middle of the road waiting for a mac truck to come and run it over and put it out of it’s misery.
So back to Mr Lambert’s message. Yes, this nation NEEDS a spiritual kick‑in‑the‑seat‑of‑it’s‑pants. I won’t deny that. BUT it needs the Grace of Jesus Christ and God so very much more. Christians need to get out more, literally. Sitting in your god‑houses and confining your praying for the miraculous to there or your good works to church property is not, I repeat, not going to win the World for Jesus. Preach the Gospel by all means and if necessary, use words. Yes, Speak, but PLEASE back up your actions with repentant lives and loving deeds. The World doesn’t need to be shouted at; it need the example of a Chuch that can do John 15:12 and 17 and lives 1 John 1:5-9, that is prepared to own it’s sin and repent of it as well as be the community of Amazing Grace and Love Jesus and My Father intended it to be.
Have we screwed up? Yes, we need to repent our stinking thinking and pride.
Should we pray for our Nation for revival and “stand in the gap” as Mr Lambert suggested? In short, yes.
Will this change things? Yes, at the very least, it will change us.
The old fart.
Shalom 🙂
Judgement has begun.(I will change her weather.)
I came across Lance Lambert in the late 1960’s.He was invited to preach at our Church By the vicar at that time,Malcolm Widdecombe (He went to be with the Lord in September 2010).
Malcolm had a great heart for Israel,and we, as a Church had excellent teaching on the subject.
Lance preached at our Church at regular intervals,until the time he went to Israel.Also a few times when he re-visited this Country .
I can only describe him as as an excellent Bible teacher,and completely sound on Biblical doctrine .
We are told to test the spirits,and to work out our own salvation.Also beware of ravening wolves within the Church,who spread false doctrine.
I found the Biblical teaching we received from Lance Lambert to be completely sound.His sincerity is beyond reproach,as far as I am concerned.
I have recently read his book “Let The House Of God Be Built”
I would recommend anyone to read it.This will give you a good idea of where he is coming from.
I believe his prophesy to be in the right direction,and could be spot on.
In the past week I have read from a source in Israel,what the Christians now living there are praying for,particularly with regards to this Country,and particularly our government and leadership.Its a tough message.
David Whittern.
The proof of a prophet is Dueteronomy 18.22. The question then is for all to asses and evaluate, has the British Empire diminished and faded? Is it dissolving into the elements that were its origins, has it ceased to be the world shaping force that it was once was? What was its most enduring influence and does it lead with vigor beyond all contempories in that field this day? Leviticus 18.24, Matthew 5.18
How do you test a prophecy? It is whether it comes true or not. Has the weather changed since this prophecy was given?
With respect, blown away with your rose-tinted view of the UK and denial of how far it has fallen from being a God-fearing nation. The UK has largely thrown God out. Judgement follows unless there is repentance, and I don’t see it happening as yet.
Prophecies of judgement have always been unpopular, most prophets of the Old Testament were persecuted for messages of judgement.
Contrary to the accusation you have laid out I say this: It is dangerous to call a widely recognised and respected prophet of God a liar. It is also dangerous to be leading others in denial of blatant Godlessness in society.
Who is Will Cookson?
I ask, though it seems a bit nerve racking to hear someone claim the name of the Lord, is this prophecy not edifying to the church?
It builds me up. I think you may want to revisit your decision.
We are strangers so I will day no more on the matter.
Er Don’t people see that a prophecy being disturbing cannot possibly invalidate it? It’s meant to be disturbing !!! It’s meant to turn you upside down. How could a prophecy be expected to sum up the history of Britain in a way which would be representative of everyone’s view
As Britain begins reeling from judgement, perhaps you will critique God too.
There are more mistakes in this analysis than in Lambert’s prophecy, that’s for sure. Keep an open mind that God is bigger than your world and not everything that is in your brain is correct nor complete. Your worldview may be very, very wrong because of that. I think you should take your comments down (at least some of them) because much of what you write is only look at things from a narrow and very limited perspective. Most every one of your comments could be picked apart.
Let me just give one example You spend about 500 words criticizing this paragraph by Lambert: “My being is seared with pain, for judgement is determined against your land. I can do no other. I will destroy the vestiges of her greatness; I will return her to her first estate. I will wreck her economy, destabilise her in every way. I will change her climate, even her weather. I will prove to her that the way of the transgressor is hard and terrible. I will allow demonic forces held in check erstwhile by My Word and Gospel, and the living faith of so many, to become rampant in her social life, to the destruction of her society.”
It is obvious that rampant homosexuality, the decline of the family (more than 50% of Kids in America grow up without a father), entertainment (porn and violence is multiplying day by day), selfishness (people have become lovers of self), the bible is forbidden in schools and in the public sphere, has made our society anti-Christian.
The West is declining relative to the rest of the world and the West is increasingly being intimidated by Russia, China, and attacked by Radical Islam.
If you cannot see that the Western world is rapidly becoming anti-Christian I believe you are not qualified to have a leadership position in a bible-based church.
Guys, I got this in an email:
“Lance Lambert, beloved brother in the Lord, friend to multitudes in Israel and abroad, and world renowned Bible teacher has passed away. Following severe health battles in Greece late last year, Lance was again hospitalized last month in Jerusalem, Israel, where he passed away peacefully Sunday afternoon May 10, 2015.
Lance, for decades, has been known as one of the most distinguished Bible scholars and speakers in Israel and for years had an itinerant teaching ministry worldwide. He was one of the great prophetic voices of our time. Born in 1931, He grew up in Richmond, Surrey and came to know the Lord at twelve years of age. He entered the school of African and Oriental studies at London University to prepare for work in China. He studied Classical Chinese, Mandarin, Oriental Philosophy and Far Eastern History, but the revolution closed the door to European missionaries and his entry into China.
In the early 1950’s Lance served in the Royal Air Force in Egypt and later founded Halford House Christian Fellowship in Richmond, England. Having discovered his Jewish ancestry Lance became an Israeli citizen in 1980 and for many years until his passing resided in Jerusalem. His father and many members of his family died in the Holocaust. He produced a widely appreciated quarterly audio recording called the Middle East Update, which gives his unique perspective on current events in the Middle East, in the light of God’s Word. He wrote numerous books including The Uniqueness of Israel and is presenter of the video production, Jerusalem, the Covenant City.
Those of us who have loved and known Lance throughout the years deeply mourn his departure from our midst. At the same time, we rejoice in his gain; the Lord Yeshua face to face, the gates opened wide to an eternity of heaven, the words of the Father, “Well done, My good and faithful servant””
Maybe it would be nice, respectful, civil and perhaps more down right ‘Christian’ if we just let the matter drop and closed this ‘conversation’ for good.
I rejoice this servant of Jesus is with his Lord as he wanted. I offer my condolences to his family and friends, and his detractors. We are all diminished. Pray therefore that someone has the courage to pick up the prophet’s mantle Lance has let go of.
We now have the responsibility of being the Voice of Jesus to this nation and the World. May we be humble. May we be worthy.
Jesus Peace.
The Old Fart
I agree this post is now closed for further comments